Up-Close with Stevie Van Zandt
UP CLOSE
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Stevie Van Zandt
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UP CLOSE ⭐️ Stevie Van Zandt ⭐️
Stevie Van Zandt is The Jersey Sound. Period. No need for a long intro here, or even any intro. The phone rang. It was him. And here’s what we said.
Stevie Van Zandt: Sorry about the confusion. Your number didn’t make it into my book, and I get constant phone calls every 10 minutes, so, unless I recognize the number, I don’t answer.
TJS: No problem. This is a big one for me. I’ve been writing about you for decades. We made a documentary, The Jersey Sound, and tried to get you in it but you were working on your own documentary movie, Disciple.
SVZ: A film I had absolutely nothing to do with. I just happened to be in it.
TJS: Tell us about Teach-Rock. You just had a big benefit concert in Asbury Park for it.
SVZ: I started Teach-Rock about 18 years ago. We went public in 2017 but started working on it around 2007. I figure we’re only gonna get one shot at it. We’re taking on the entire education bureaucracy. I just felt it was time for a change, y’know? It was time for kids to start enjoying going to school again. Maybe even more than they ever have. Especially with this generation who, unlike our generation, they need a reason to be in that classroom, man, because they can get answers to any question they want on their device within 30 seconds. You have to curate and capture their interest. I would imagine that teachers must be pulling their hair out trying to get the attention of their students these days. So we designed this thing specifically for teachers to present something compelling to their students and let them know this is something they can use right now because this generation is all about right now. We wanted it to be practical, useful and fun yet still meet all state standards so we could actually teach this thing in the proper classrooms, rather than some after-school thing.
“When the greatest art is also the most commercial, you’re in a renaissance period, and that’s what the ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s are all about. That stuff will be studied for hundreds of years to come. Those first two generations of rock’n’roll, man, it’s finite. It only happens once, and it was phenomenal.”
TJS: Over 80,000 teachers in all 50 states! You deserve all the credit in the world.
SVZ: Thank you, we just hit the million-student mark.
TJS: That’s incredible but not surprising as you’ve always had a penchant for social awareness. Hell, you practically ended apartheid in South Africa with that “Sun City” song. You’ve always been on the front lines. Man, you gotta feel deeply about what’s going on in our country today but I do not want to get you started on that!
SVZ: [laughing] Good idea.
TJS: At 74, we’re the exact same age. We’re of the generation who watched The Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show in 1964 and all went out and formed our own bands as a direct result. But when did you realize you could act?
SVZ: I’m still working on it. It was such a gift, man. At this stage of the game, to be handed a new craft, I just jumped in. Learning on the job, man. It just so happened to be the greatest acting school one could go to. As I’ve said many times, you do a scene with Jimmy Gandolfini [on the set of The Sopranos], you walk away a better actor. I mean, sure, yeah, acting had always been a side interest of mine, y’know? I’ve read every gangster book. I’ve seen every gangster movie. I kinda grew up in that milieu a little bit. It wasn’t really obvious but those wanna-be gangsters down in Jersey were all just as scary as the real thing. I kinda got a glimpse of that thing back then. I felt like I had to do it, y’know? [Sopranos Producer-Director-Writer] David Chase was the one who took a huge chance on me. I still find that amazing. Man, it took balls. Courage.
TJS: But he was right. You added such great weight, gravitas and personality to the characterization of Silvio Dante. You were one tough motherfucker after being such an onstage good-guy.
SVZ: Yeah for some reason America kinda took that for granted. Of course half-a-hippie guitar player like me could play a convincing gangster [laughs]! Meanwhile, in Norway, it was a whole different story. Lillyhammer won for best show three years in a row at the Monte Carlo TV Awards and I won for best actor…
TJS: …for Frank “The Fixer” Tagliano, a mobster trying to go straight.
SVZ: But here, viewers went, “oh, he’s from Jersey? Of course he could play a gangster.” [laughs]
TJS: I grew in Newark with a single mom and she told me that before I was born, she had a crush on a handsome Jewish gangster, Abner “Longy” Zwillman [1904-1959], the Boss of Newark. He died under mysterious circumstances, as he was found hanged in his West Orange home at 55. The official cause of death was suicide as he had been issued a subpoena to appear before a Grand Jury but it was widely believed that Meter Lansky or Lucky Luciano had him whacked.
SVZ: Of course! He was big!
TJS: I’d say, “but mom, he’s a killer” and she’d remind me that he always bought Thanksgiving turkeys for us poor Jews in Newark.
SVZ: He’s a real famous gangster. I am impressed with that! In my world, that right there is serious business! He ran the docks.
TJS: Yeah, the story goes that when New York mob guys were all killing each other, he was the one who put the five families together to consolidate power. There’s a book called Gangster #2 about him. My mom bought it and also clipped out newspaper articles about him.
SVZ: [laughing] Wow, I love this!
TJS: You have filled a void on radio with your “Underground Garage.”
SVZ: I turned the radio on one day and I’m like, “what happened?” Nothing wrong with the Classic Rock format, that’s obviously where you and I live, but it’s limited and I thought how unfair for this generation to be growing up with all of the fun stuff that seems to have been taken from them. They kinda missed the party. So I thought, “I’m gonna bring the party back” to make what I call “The Renaissance” accessible again. When the greatest art is also the most commercial, you’re in a renaissance period, and that’s what the ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s are all about. That stuff will be studied for hundreds of years to come. Those first two generations of rock’n’roll, man, it’s finite. It only happens once, and it was phenomenal. People are still inspired and motivated by it and will be forever. That, right there, is what I wanted to make accessible. Bring it to the generation who weren’t there the first time. There’s 70+ years now of rock and soul to be discovered. It was a combination of taking the past—WABC and WMCA, the two major AM stations—that morphed into the early FM stations like WPLJ and WNEW, and combine them. We don’t play any slow songs! We don’t play any long songs. Three minutes, man, 3:30 tops. There’s that pop AM format right there! Now add the personality of the DJ like early FM, which is also gone today. And…making sure listeners know who wrote the song, who produced it, who’s in the band, what other bands were the musicians in? I wanted to make it clear that good music does not fall off trees! Lately, we’ve been adding in fun cultural stuff like who invented the surfboard, where’d the first hot dog come from, who invented the drive-in theater. We also brought back artist IDs that had been gone for many years.
TJS: Hi, this is Southside Johnny and you’re listening to “Underground Garage.”
SVZ: Exactly. And it’s a worldwide format now. And it’s on 75 terrestrial radio station as well as Satellite. Yeah, “Underground Garage” and now “Outlaw Country.” We’re the only ones playing new stuff. We’ve introduced over a thousand new bands yet we’ll jump right on it when and if the Rolling Stones have a new song. I consider what we do a valuable service, combining history with new stuff.
“I truly believe that [Disciples of Soul] is one of the best bands ever assembled. And it’s up to you to rise to that occasion. If you’re fronting one of the greatest bands ever assembled, you better fucking show up, man.”
TJS: When I was nine in 1960, I used to go nuts for a song called “You Can’t Sit Down” by The Dovells. So I’m doing my research for this interview and I freaked when saw YOU were in The Dovells. We’re the same age! How could that be? What were you, 10?
SVZ: [laughing] No no no, it was during the rock’n’roll revival years in the early ‘70s. I was in a later version of The Dovells, yeah, that played the oldies circuit. Richard Nader’s revival shows, man, yeah, in fact the first time I played Madison Square Garden was with The Dovells. I did a year with them! He’d have like 10 acts on one show. Little Richard and all the pioneers. I wasn’t on that 1960 record [laughing] but it was a great one, I agree with you, as was their “Bristol Stomp.” I consider those two songs as two of the greatest rock’n’roll records ever made. And It was an honor and so fascinating for me to be on that circuit. In the early ‘70s, ‘50s rock’n’roll was big! Happy Days was on TV. American Graffiti was in the movies.
TJS: I gotta ask you about “Tenth Avenue Freezeout.” What you did as part of E Street, with that song, is the stuff of legend. That song is so you! The way you got the horns to swing like that really made the tune. Did you really tell Bruce it was awful at first. I could only wonder what it must have sounded like before you put your hands on it.
SVZ: I don’t even remember. It wasn’t just the arrangement that wasn’t quite right. It was also the sound itself. In those days, man, the studios were so padded, rugs everywhere, it just sounded terrible. And the style, the methodology at the time, was to take all of the live sound out of the recording, and then mix it all back in. That’s insane! But that was how it was done. The engineers took over. It was terrible. They demanded clarity in preparation. Total control of the frequencies. And that ain’t rock’nroll! I’m sorry. It’s just not what good music should be. I remember hearing it for the first time and I thought it just sounded so bad. I couldn’t believe it. Listen, we had been fighting our whole lives to get into the music business. To get where we were: in a recording studio. And that’s what we came up with? This is as good as it gets? Man, what a disappointment. So when Bruce asked me what I thought, I looked him right in the eye and said point-blank, “it sucks.” I think he got pissed. He says, “well, go in there and fucking fix it yourself.” So I did.
TJS: I understand you were expelled from Middletown High School in Monmouth County for refusing to cut your hair?
SVZ: Right. That’s how things were in 1968. I was also kicked out of my house. I had to go live with my girlfriend. It was World War III at our house. Our generation, with our parents, well, you know, right? We were nothing but an embarrassment to them. I felt sorry for my mother. She was kinda caught in the middle. You know how that is. But the fathers in those days? Fucking scary, man.
TJS: Yeah, I know what you mean. Bruce had a problem with his dad too. And I was raised by my single mom and my grandparents. My dad was total deadbeat. Plus, it’s that generation.
SVZ: You couldn’t blame them. They probably looked at us and thought, “what the hell happened here? What is this long-haired thing? Rock’n’Roll? Really? Drugs? What the fuck?” You gotta feel sorry for them having to be confronted with this. But that was how it was. Eventually both our fathers—both mine and Bruce’s—came around in the end. I got along with him great eventually.
TJS: Did he get to see your success?
SVZ: Yeah.
TJS: Thank goodness. That’s great, man.
SVZ: Yeah, that was really nice. But it was rough going for quite awhile. Very tough.
Stevie Van Zandt by Rob DeMartin
TJS: I understand you’re friends with the two surviving Beatles. I talk to my friend Bob Santelli of the Springsteen Archives and I know he’s friends with Bruce. But it’s not like he calls Bruce up to chat. I guess it’s something about being friends with a superstar where you just don’t bother him. Is that the same thing with you and McCartney?
SVZ: “Friends” is a strong word. No, I don’t call Paul [laughs]. I’m friendlier with Paul than Ringo though. And I gotta say, Ringo was one of the first guys to support “Underground Garage.” I’ll always love him for that. His was the very first ID. Him and Keith Richards. The first two.
TJS: You can’t get bigger than that!
SVZ: Yeah a Beatle and a Stone! And it was just as my radio show was starting so they didn’t know what it was going to be. They both did it on blind faith, and I’ve always really appreciated that. But it’s not like I ever see Ringo. Or even talk to him. I mean, sure, I might see him once a year at various functions. But Paul? We’ll text each other now and then. Like Santelli with Bruce, I don’t like to bother him. Just every once in a while. I usually like to stay out of people’s way. Nobody’s busier than McCartney [laughs]. He never stops touring. It’s amazing.
TJS: I remember when “I Wanna Hold Your Hand” came out. I was 12. It was the first Beatle hit in America, and I remember arguing vociferously with a schoolmate against it, saying “that song is for girls.” And I would argue for another song out at the same time by another British Invasion group, “Glad All Over,” by the Dave Clark Five. And, by the way, to this day, I always say Mike Smith of the DC5 is one of the greatest lead singers of any band ever.
SVZ: I totally agree. In fact, I fought to get ‘em into the Rock’n’Roll Hall of Fame. So underrated. He was one of the great rock vocalists of all-time, and those DC5 records? They were arguably the greatest-sounding records of anybody!
TJS: Didn’t Mike Smith die like five days before the ceremony?
SVZ: Oh yeah, that was fucking horrible. I don’t know how close it was but yeah. Just terrible.
TJS: You’ve come on to be—or may you always were—a great front man in your own right. I saw your Disciples of Soul at The State Theater in Easton Pennsylvania. It blew my mind, man. I didn’t know what to expect going in. Everything about it. The vocals. The arrangements. The material. The absolute punch! The horns! And you, my friend, were rather larger-than-life with your onstage persona.
SVZ: Thank you. I really appreciate that. You play the role, man. And that’s the role I was cast in. You know what I mean? I truly believe that that band is one of the best bands ever assembled. And it’s up to you to rise to that occasion. If you’re fronting one of the greatest bands ever assembled, you better fucking show up, man. Y’know? You adapt to the situation. It was really nice to do those tours: the Soulfire tour in 2017 and the Summer Of Sorcery tour in 2019. It reconnected me to my own music. I mean, it had literally been like 30 years. And I hadn’t really even thought about it in all that time. Through a series of bizarre circumstances, I ended up getting it back together and I’m so glad I did because it really turned out to be quite rewarding and ultimately satisfying.
TJS: And to think you’re already in the greatest band ever. You must love that. To be up on that stage with Bruce all over the world to feel the response and the adulation. I mean, damn, you could play Timbuktu with E Street and they would still know all the songs.
SVZ: The thing that both bands have in common—and believe me, I will never take this for granted—being in one of the greatest bands in the world is enough but being in two of them? It’s something to be extremely thankful about. But both bands have in common the fact that it doesn’t matter if you know the songs or not, ok? Because both bands are going to present those songs in a way that is so compelling that you’re going to feel you know that song by the end of the first time you ever heard it. Whether you knew it coming into the venue or not. And, especially in the Disciples case because we never even had a hit! None of my stuff was a hit. Ever. So you’re coming in cold. Sure, some people have the records but most don’t. They come out of curiosity. Maybe they come because they watch The Sopranos, who knows? And no one’s ever left one of my shows unimpressed because the band just holds them, holds them there tight. And doesn’t let up. The quality of the stuff is such that it feels familiar. And becomes familiar during the course of the evening. Both bands have that in common: that ability to play live in such a high impactful style, that it’s irresistible.
TJS: I know exactly what you mean. Hey, I’ve seen ‘em all live from The Doors to Elvis. I only went to see you because The State lets me in for free every show. So I figured, why not? But after that show, I didn’t even get up to go home. I sat there. I think I was the last person still in my seat. And when they came to get me, I walked outside in a daze and almost got run over by a car crossing the street. Death by rock’n’roll!
SVZ: [laughing] I love that!
TJS: Yeah, it affected me so profoundly. So what’s in your future? You’re an actor, a producer, an author (I devoured your 2021 Unrequited Infatuations auto-biography.) You got that Disciple documentary. You got two bands, two TV shows, two radio formats plus you’re a political activist. What’s next?
SVZ: I don’t know. We’ll see. It’s all up in the air right now. I think it’s time to get back on TV. We’ll see if that works out. I wrote five scripts. That’s five different pilot shows. Plus, if a good role comes along that I didn’t write, I won’t mind. I got my eyes open. I got a relatively new agency working for me. I expect something to happen within the next year or so.